Hi. My name is Destiny, and I am one of the most prolific streamers in the world at the moment. I stream League of Legends, primarily, and I used to stream Starcraft 2.
In December of 2011, I was approached by own3d.tv to switch over from twitch.tv. I wrote a relatively detailed article explaining that my decision was primarily motivated by financial reasons. Basically, own3d.tv promised me more money for advertising plus a cash incentive for signing up with them. According to the contract, own3d.tv would pay “within 30 (thirty) days of receipt of revenues from advertising.” I was also promised “60% of all Premium Subscription” revenue, referring to the people that subscribed to me via the $5/month system on own3d.
Let’s look at a few different things that I was promised as part of my contract:
Signing Bonus
Upon signing up with own3d.tv, they agreed to pay me a cash incentive bonus for signing up with their service. According to the contract, “50% upfront payments for the first month” was to be paid out. I also had a smaller amount ($5,000) to be used for an event of my choice, such as hosting a tournament or showmatch series, that own3d.tv would put up for me. In requesting whether or not the cash incentive would be paid out, I contacted Oleg (COO of own3d.tv) multiple times [1] [2]. After the first three times, he said that it would be wired to me next week, back in April. I inquired again about it and received no response, then was assured sometime in May that I’d be receiving it within the week. Finally, on May 25th, Oleg assured me that the signing bonus was wired to me. Of course, later I’d find out it was only 1/3rd of what I was owed, and that I’d be receiving it in 1/3rd “chunks” over the next few months. So after 7 months of streaming with own3d, I was finally paid my cash incentive for signing up with them. Not the greatest, but at least I received all of it.
![1]](http://www.destiny.gg/n/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ci1.png){kind=link}
Event Bonus
I was given a certain dollar amount “to be managed by own3D.tv to run events for the Publisher.” As time went on with own3d.tv, my paychecks gradually came in later and later. They were incredibly unreliable with paying me, and I was incredibly uncomfortable trying to manage an event with them being responsible for paying anything out. I wasn’t willing to risk my name and reputation with them in regards to paying out prizes or payments. As a compromise, I inquired about using my event budget to schedule a trip to Poland to stay at the Ministry of Win with my family. Although this wasn’t in the contract, Oleg assured me it would be okay via Skype on June 12th. At this time, I told Ministry of Win I would be coming to visit them and entered contract negotiations with them for my stay. I messaged Oleg later asking how I would go about booking the plane tickets, but (as usual) received no response. Eventually I received an e-mail from someone working with own3d.tv that it would be impossible to use it unless I signed another contract with them to “unlock” the money. Since they were incredibly shaky with payments (among other things) I imagine they were worried that I would be switching streaming platforms upon the expiration of my contract. That’s just conjecture, of course. Finally, Oleg told me on Skype that it would be impossible to use said funds for traveling.
As of January 17th, I haven’t been able to use this event money for anything, and I assume that I’ll never have the opportunity to.
This is the reason own3d won’t last until 2014. And no fucks will be given.
What a large dump truck haul full of dicks. What is Owned, the WarZ of streaming sites? I hope they wise up and pay you what you’re owed contractually. I am surprised you didn’t lawyer up a long time ago, you have more patience than I ever could have for their kind of responsibility sidling.
In any case welcome back to twitch, now I can actually subscribe to you.
Hoenstly, in your case you probably do not have to pay the contract fee. Not getting paid by them IS good reason to leave the contract. So actually just take it to court.
If everything is as you say, it’ll be an easy win.
Just wanted to let you know that you don’t owe them anything as they breached their obligation to pay you, so you had valid reason to terminate early.
“in case of termination without good reason and without any breach of obligations – the terminating party is obliged to pay a termination penalty. The penalty fee amounts to 60 percent of the average monthly revenues (including sponsorship fees) that have been generated before termination for the remaining months of the Agreement”
Own3d breached their obligation to pay you in a timely manner, their money was consideration for you to enter into the contract in the first place. So please don’t pay them anything as you don’t owe them anything
Oh man, I never thought Own3d.tv would be like this, but then again, they really suck anyway. Shady, shady, shady. I hope you have a much better experience with Twitch.
Thanks for the information. This really sucks
Didn’t you have any other contact method like phone, post adress or something like that? It may be oldschool, but to call someone via the good old telephone or write a “registered letter” with your demands could have helped with your case, at least maybe. It is so easy to lie/promise stuff via skype/the internet in general….
I hope twitch will be a better provider. Good luck in the future!
I am no lawyer by any means, but I believe the termination penalty doesn’t apply to you. This is because it was Own3d.tv who breached the contract in the first place by not paying you within the stated time frame. Since they breached the contract I believe you are free to leave at any point, especially since you have been trying to get things resolved in a calm manner.
Just my 2 cents.
Wow, that’s rough.. I’d say inquire about your own lawyers.. but that requires money that you don’t have. Hopefully this article reaches enough people to get that money you’re owed. Sorry you were robbed.
If the contract is just abit normal, then own3d won’t risk taking lawyers into this case.
It’s not you that broke the contract, they did when not giving you monthly paycheck and not paying for the subs.
If you take a lawyer into this you will stand very strong.
And you will have a lot of support from all your fans
Thanks for a very good post. This is without a doubt very disturbing. I am not even close to be as “big” as you when it come to stream, but this really shows how f**** up this industry can be. Hope you get this solved asap dude.
Rubaduck
Destiny, I appreciate that you’ve got the guts posting this stuff. I can sign everything you wrote 100% since I made the same experience with them. Payment delays of six months being quite normal, not responding on Skype once the subject was about payments or technical issues, it all sounds quite familiar, with their advertisers not paying on-time being used as their primary excuse.
I also have to mention, just to be fair, that Twitch tried to get us way before the troubles with own3d began. We would have joined them earlier if they wouldn’t have been that fuzzy about the actual rates to be achieved through advertising.
However, since we switched to Twitch, the rates might be a bit lower, but not only do we get paid faster, technical issues are being solved in no-time.
If everything you say is true. Then own3d.tv shouldn’t hesitate to pay you after seeing this posted on your website and teamliquid.net . It sounds like they are struggling financially if they cant pay one streamer. Of course this is just hearsay but they definitely breached their contract with you when failing to pay in a ‘reasonable’ time frame.
Hopefully you are paid what they owe to you and they get their shit together. If they don’t make things right then they don’t deserve to have a place in this scene.
Hope you get your dues from own3d.tv, it seems they’ve ripped you big time and have no reliable business practice.
Happy to see someone’s back on twitch – connections are much better
Wow. This just turned my opinion and expectations on Own3d.tv by 180 degrees.
What a shame.
Glad I came across this before I decided to start streaming. I’d heard bad things about own3d, but never imagined it was this bad.
so your saying that own3d.tv is lightly said, a douche bag, and twitch is much better?
Please, this i need to know since i have started streaming on own3d :-/
Why are all these streaming sites so dodgey? That CEO is 100% a scammer, you can just tell by his demeanour in his replies. I feel so sorry for you Destiny, i’ve been a fan since day 1. Being a progamer is a career and a very difficult one as competitiion is improving daily. Because this streaming format is a good way for pro’s to make money from home instead of doing the big country switch move it’s just an open opportunity for scams, look at what machinima have become now. Just take the company to court, you’ve got all the evidence you need for 100% win. You deserve all that money – Go and get it bro.
There is a guy in the competitive call of duty scene that is like this, his name is slider, he used to run tournaments and such, and never pay out, and always pull the “checks are in the mail” “gotta talk to a lawyer” etc. Sucks to hear that you are going through this and good luck in the future.
‘just got an update’
Translation :I just thought of another excuse within the last 2 minutes.
They potentially breached the contract by not paying you, and therefore possibly owe YOU the additional 60%.
Nobody should use Own3d.tv
The CEO of Own3d.tv strongly reminds me of Paul Christoforo and his debacle with Penny Arcade. Maybe not as childish, but basically the same empty promises tied together by how “their” problems take precedence; which does absolutely nothing to assuage the concerns of the customer. Been wanting to know why Destiny suddenly switched back to Twitch, and he delievered.
You do realize that Oleg is the COO and not the CEO, right? You said CEO so I’m guessing not.
Yeah, I changed it, oops!
When it says “…In case of termination without good reason..”, what defines “good reason”? I feel as if financial stability coming to a close was a “good” enough reason to terminate the contract. You should sue own3d.tv, to be honest.